f1vlad.com

by Vladislav Kulchitski

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War on IE6 is on!

"

When I created a plug-in killie6, not many supported me. Some declared my methods are deceptive and unethical. Yes, I agree, Microsoft's armor icon could be quite radical, but my plug-in could be restyled to not be deceptive.

My project was thus put to temporary sleep for a while. It was used on a number of smaller sites that did not care about ie6 users.

Few weeks ago I was notified that a large (currently undisclosed) web portal intends to use my plug-in which was great news to me. I was asked to add cookie functionality that would remember choice. Latest released will soon be added to this unnamed large portal, about which I will not hesitate to mention here as soon as I can.

Last couple of days brought big news from Norway about a number of influential websites declared a way on IE6, and subsequent slashdot article Norwegian Websites Declare War On IE 6.

Twitter.com is playing a big role in this war on IE6 as well via #ie6.

All I can say is I am delighted that this is happening and more individuals and organizations are making efforts to make Internet Explorer 6 the past.

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Archived comments

Below is a copy of

—

Below is a copy of linkedin.com discussion:

Here is what I asked on linkedin.com:

How far will a web developer go to help demote Internet Explorer 6?

The issue of IE6 has been bothering me for a while and now I decided to do something. I created a tiny plug-in, that I will run on my and my customers websites to promote newer browsers and get rid/kill IE6. I named my plug-in 'killie6'. Despite the negative tone in the name I believe the purpose of the project is truly positive.

This plug-in detects if website visitor is using IE6. Then it waits few seconds and pops up a yellow horizontal bar across the browser on top. The bar is styled as a genuine Microsoft message that suggests to the visitor to upgrade the browser.

My idea isn't new by any means. Facebook does very same thing when detects ie6. And it suggests a number of browser alternatives. I do it conservatively by forwarding user to Microsoft upgrade page but I do try to trick the user by styling the message as MS-genuine.

In contrast google announced today that gmail.com supports ie6 now. I was surprised. I do understand it's good for them, more users etc. But I would expect them to help get rid ie6 and not retain it.

In any case, I would like to hear some of the reactions from web developers. Is it a good thing to do or not. And why.

And additionally I hereby invite all interested developers to join the project and contribute code if you have an ideas for improvement. If you have a bug to report you can do it here as well:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/killie6/

Thanks for your attention,
Vlad

p.s. live demo could be seen here: http://pastebin.me/48c6a3abcd265
p.s.s. I checked life demo on firefox, it works, obviously I didn't pay attention to other browser as it's intended to be used on ie6 only.
Clarification added 5 months ago:

Thanks to all mature and constructive answers I decided to not style my plug-in as Microsoft. I will do it another way, but I will still do it perhaps more ethical way. Again thanks for all constructive responses, that is very helpful.

To all others who have no clue what IE6 is, please do not flame this discussion. Please, go, read up and understand what IE6 is and then come here and post your attacks.

Some of you sent fantastic sites which I didn't know about:

http://www.stopie6.org/
http://www.savethedevelopers.org/

Answers (16)

Conrad W

Design Director: Technology Review

Given that 29.4%* of today's Average Average Visitors are using Microsoft's IE Version 6.0, why would you want to alienate that many people?



* Omniture Sept 9, 2008

Links:

posted 5 months ago

Shimi S

IT Specialist

Best Answers in: Computers and Software (1), Computer Networking (1), Software Development (1), Web Development (1), Using LinkedIn (1)

Vlad,



Just FYI, there is this Stop-IE6 thing, see URL.

Links:

posted 5 months ago

Leonard H

Owner, Capstone Labs

Best Answers in: Computers and Software (1), Web Development (1)

Yes, Google announces gmail is compatible with IE6 but from articles I have read it was not because Google changed Gmail they had Microsoft create an update for IE 6 to add improvements in the rendering of javascript and other enhancements to make it work. However, will the users actually apply this update not like they have updated their software anyway so the effectiness of this will be interesting to see.



I think, like most users these days that have seen too numerous of ads .. any popup'esk' ads or alert messages ...especially official looking .. are quickly being ignored.. or considered spam or hacker attempts from the site.



So, while I do applaud you idea, I think honesty and a clear and consise text on the site with upgrade link would be better serve you and those you wish to update in the long run as many other sites are starting to post.



Unfortunately for me, I have a few clients that are completely unwilling to budge from IE 6. So, at least for now I still have to support it but as IE 8 is released the reasoning behind upgrading and reducing support are that much more enforced.

posted 5 months ago

Alexandru B

Web-developer at Next Version

Best Answers in: Web Development (1)

Well as an web developer i would love nothing better than to get rid of IE6. But sadly that is not possible for now. Until I have a feeling that as long as there are pc's using XP as a primary OS we'll be stuck with IE6.



Hopefully the market share will drop below 2% and we can remove support for it. I'm already doing it on some projects that have a IE6 usage of below 5%.


The 'plugin' is not the best option from the point of view of a visitor. A small div of text with a message from the site-team might have a better impact than an attempt to fool the end-user. I tried the "please update your browser" method on a site at some point.


I had a div that showed before all other content asking them to update and signed 'Development team' on top of the mails i got asking questions it did manage to drop the share of IE6 to under the critical level of 5% where the client decided that it's ok to stop supporting the browser on extended modules.

posted 5 months ago

Chris O

Creative Visionary and Avid/Rabid Gamer

I think you're treading on uncertain ground here. Attempting to intentionally mimic Microsoft could be construed as fraud, although admittedly that's a bit extreme. The bigger problem would be one of your own credibility. Are you informing the customer that you're inserting that code on their sites? Are they in agreement? Could you word the message to sound less dire and not like an OS message (also, check your grammar)?



All that said, I agree with the need to sunset IE6, but I strongly suggest avoiding any appearance of subterfuge or deception.

posted 5 months ago

Patrick W

►Sr. User Interface Developer (Blackboard Inc.)

Best Answers in: Web Development (2)

As much as we all hate developing around IE6 bugs... it's not our job as developers to determine what software we allow our viewers to use.



It is our job to develop high quality interfaces and applications based around what viewers are actually using.



I agree that IE6 is a royal pita, but this is overstepping the acceptable boundaries IMO. At what point does this become different from any other piece of malware on a user's computer. And most importantly, what if your end user likes using IE6?



It would be better to do browser detection and bounce the user to a "IE6 is not supported" page, than to manipulate them with a message that is designed into deceiving them into thinking that Microsoft is sending the message.



So the short answer is... It's unethical. And while we all hate designing for IE6, you must let the browser die it's own death as more people upgrade.

posted 5 months ago

Greg H

PHP Developer at Quotient

Facebook does very same thing because it is part of their agenda. While I can't count the hours wasted on IE6's CSS box model and other shortcomings, the one question you should ask yourself is if your customers asked for this feature and is it part of their agenda.



If a developer ( in the general sense, not you in particular Vlad ) placed their personal agenda over the client's agenda then that developer is most likely not considering the possible fallout created for that client. They are not providing the client with creditable service.



However, if after they've met their client's agenda and if their agenda does not conflict, then maybe offering a discount on fees for them helping with the developer's agenda seems reasonable.



Above all, the client has to be made aware that this feature has been added because they are the one's that are going to get the irate customer's call about how... "Your website downloaded some sort of program on my computer and it changed my internet!"

Clarification added 5 months ago:

To address Mr. Borowski's remark, that mentality is bordering on "This page best viewed at X by Y resolution". That's fine for a vanity site but otherwise the site should address the visitor's needs leaving the decision to upgrade/change browsers to the visitor for the very same reason why you don't ask a visitor to go to the trouble of changing their screen resolution.



Bothering the visitor to change their browser each time like bothering them to change their screen resolution will not get the desired result. The visitor will simply decide not to be bothered anymore and that means not returning to the site in question.

posted 5 months ago

Roger B

Engineering Lead at Trulia, Inc., the bestest real estate search engine. Hiring engineers now!

Web developers need to stop complaining about browser incompatibilities and live with the platforms they write code for, warts and all. Folks who port code from one platform to another have to deal with compiler implementation inconsistencies all the time. Why should it be any easier for Web folks? Sure, it's annoying, and IE6 is full of bugs, but so are other browsers, and not even the crowd favorites Firefox and Safari or Chrome render valid HTML code exactly the same way. It's part of the job.

posted 5 months ago

Benjamin B

Interactive Designer and Developer

Best Answers in: Web Development (2)

Given it's grip on the market, IE6 support is absolutely necessary for a public website. Though I am a huge advocate for notifying users that they should upgrade to a modern browser! Often in very annoying ways! A lot of users (work users) don't have the ability to upgrade their software without an "admin". That's unfortunate, really. However, if you are at home on your personal computer, and you are still using IE6 when you could upgrade...jerk.

Links:

posted 5 months ago

Jeremy L

★Creative Problem Solving Guru★

Best Answers in: Computers and Software (1), Software Development (1)

Most shops that I have ever worked with try to support two versions of the browser. So right now it's IE 6 & 7. I would say that it will be questionable to continue supporting 7 when 8 is released. Due to the fact that basically all the major browsers are free to upgrade, I think this is a pretty fair compromise position.

Clarification added 5 months ago:

Sorry I meant supporting 6 when 8 is released.

posted 5 months ago

Lloyd M

Developer at Idea Integration

Best Answers in: Software Development (3), Web Development (2), Computers and Software (1)

I would love to see IE6 go away, but I think such measures will detract more from the site in question than the user's choice of browser. Unfortunately, many large enterprises are highly reluctant to switch from IE6. I've mostly worked on intranet websites and dealing with IE6 has been par for the course. I've tried to push organizations to IE7 but resistance to such a change has won out every time.

posted 5 months ago

Roland V

Seasoned Internet Developer and Perl Monger

Best Answers in: Web Development (5), Search Marketing (1), Small Business (1)

Are webdevelopers so immature that they won't bother going the extra mile to provide quality products and instead start to blame the users of their products if they don't behave as you'd like? If you don't consider supporting IE6 as part of your job as a webdeveloper, then maybe you shouldn't be a webdeveloper at all...


I mean, IE6? IE3, NN4 an IE5Mac were hard to support. Complaining about IE6 probably just means you weren't around to gather experience about it's quirks when it was the main browser to support?

posted 5 months ago

Matthew M

President at LMN Solutions, Inc.

Best Answers in: Software Development (1)

How far will I go? I will personally perform the upgrade myself and give the customer a brief tour of their new tabbed browser. I will also work to make sure that all of those people know that their IT staffs are lazy or stupid for not allowing them upgrade.

posted 5 months ago

Amit S

8yrs+ of Rich Experience in Digital Services

Best Answers in: Graphic Design (2), Public Relations (1), Branding (1), Small Business (1), E-Commerce (1), Using LinkedIn (1)

Dear Vlad,



I don't think it is important to promote or ask users to stop using IE 6.0. This would happen gradually as technology develop and old technology fades away.



Like you would hardly find users using IE 5.0 or 800 X 600 resolutions, because technology have changed there are monitor which support higher resolution. Similarly most of the websites are now being developed in 1024 X 768 resolutions, which was not the tread say 2yrs back.



I have a PC at home which is Intel HT 2.6 GHZ, I use IE 6.0 in this system and I have a Laptop HP DV600 series, where I use IE 7.0. So when I would change my PC I would automatically shift to IE 7.0, since I would shift from Windows XP to Windows Vista.


Secondly, if you sift to a newer OS or Brower it consume more resource then the old version, so I that the prime reason why use don’t shift to a new version.


So, I think it’s the technology which would bring change automatically.



Regards,


Amit

posted 5 months ago

Neil S

Web Developer / Streaming specialist at Unique Media

Best Answers in: Web Development (2), Databases (1), Telecommunications (1)

I happen to run multiple machines at home. The one I'm at now is a windows 2000 box, 400Mhz celeron - which is quite adequate for basic browsing, email, word processing and newsgroup work - and that's pretty much all I use it for.



The other machines are currently tied up on development tasks or video processing. So you're suggesting what here - a kind of "Kill Browser" ?



I think that's far fetched in the extreme. People may have a variety of reasons to run IE6, such as it's the last supported version on Win 2000 - users *may not* have the resources to purchase a newer OS or PC, it could be a second PC or one given to a child.



Consider that all these people are potential customers of your product, and try to provide a graceful degratation in both visual and scripting areas.



By all means don't "support" it, and your designers may not really care how it looks in IE6, but don't lock out *any* browsers. Would you do the same to screen reader users ? How about those with images or javascript turned off, or unavailable (for example mobile phone and PDA users ?)



You'd be cutting your nose off to spite your face if that's the case.



HTH - Cheers - Neil Smith


MVP Digital Media 2004-2008


http://mvp.support.microsoft.com

posted 5 months ago

John M

Experienced web developer / designer

Best Answers in: Computers and Software (2), Offshoring and Outsourcing (1), Business Development (1), Organizational Development (1), Positioning (1), E-Commerce (1), Enterprise Software (1), Software Development (1), Web Development (1)

I don't understand how people can complain about IE6's box model. Internet Explorer fixed their box model in version 5.5. Of course, you need to be developing in standards mode for this to work, but that's how you achieve standards compliance anyway.



Really it is beyond comprehension why designers and developers continue to produce websites in quirksmode. This was designed to aid the transition of websites to modern CSS-based layouts, and yet here we are years later and people still complaining about the box model when it has already been fixed. Unbelievable!

posted 5 months ago